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"Lycopodium Tracer"

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Don Carter Jun-08-00, 08:45 PM (GMT)

"Lycopodium Tracer"

Any information or experience in using Lycopodium spores as a groundwater flow tracer?
Don

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Table of contents

RE: Lycopodium Tracer, webmaster, 01:12 PM, Jun-09-00, (1)
RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Luke Warren, 11:26 AM, Mar-12-04, (2)
RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Ralph O. Ewers Ph.D., 04:23 AM, Mar-17-04, (3)

RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Chris Wolkersdorfer, 07:09 AM, Mar-17-04, (4)

RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Didier vanden berghe, 07:52 AM, Mar-17-04, (5)
RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Petar Milanovic, 07:45 AM, Mar-18-04, (6)
RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Petar Milanovic, 07:45 AM, Mar-18-04, (7)

RE: Lycopodium Tracer, webmaster, 05:17 PM, Mar-18-04, (8)

RE: Lycopodium Tracer, Larry Spangler, 06:27 PM, Mar-31-04, (9)

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webmaster Jun-09-00, 01:12 PM (GMT)

1. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

I have heard of spores used by fire eaters. It may also be toxic or cause allergic reactions.

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Luke Warren Mar-12-04, 11:26 AM (GMT)

2. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

I found your message as I am currently seeking some Lycopodium spores for a release into a stream. Did you manage to find any spores yourself as I am having trouble acquiring some.
Any help will be much appreciated
Luke

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Ralph O. Ewers Ph.D. Mar-17-04, 04:23 AM (GMT)

3. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

Lycopodium spores have been used in the past for groundwater tracing in Karst aquifers. I have used them with good results. However, their effective use is extremely labor intensive. They have been replaced by fluorescent dyes for this purpose because the dyes are very much easier to use, have part per trillion detection limits, are easily captured on activated carbon, and the analysis is quite simple. Spores are useful only in situations where the research question involves the ability of the aquifer to pass particles of spore size. Even this use has now been suplanted by fluorescent microspheres which are much more readilly detected and are supplied in a wide range of sizes to answer those questions regarding permeability to specific particle sizes. I strongly suggest that you abandon spores and investigate dyes or fluorescent microspheres instead. I can give you guidance on the use of spores or dyes, based upon nearly 30 years of experience in tracing. I could be much more help if I knew the question that you are trying to answer with the spores.

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Chris Wolkersdorfer Mar-17-04, 07:09 AM (GMT)

4. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

In case you *really* want to use Lycopodium, you can get them from the explosives industry or from medical suppliers. They were used for the production of medicine and they are still used to improve fire works. I used colored Lycopodium as tracers with good results several times.
A supplier for Lycopodium and dyes could be Fluka at Sigma-Aldrich (http://www.sigma-aldrich.com/).
Nonetheless, you should think about Ralph's comments. Due to the labour intensive use of Lycopodium we switched to Microspheres as well. We are working together with http://www.triton.com because they are quick, cheap and reliable.
In case you need some literature, please see http://www.wolkersdorfer.info

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Didier vanden berghe Mar-17-04, 07:52 AM (GMT)

5. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

There is a very nice online thesis talking about biological tracer. The first part of the thesis will interest you, the other parts talk much more about bacteriophages
http://www.unige.ch/cyberdocuments/unine/theses2001/RossiP/these_front.html
with best regards

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Petar Milanovic Mar-18-04, 07:45 AM (GMT)

6. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

I try to send some informations related to Lycopodium spores but your Yahoo address do not work. Do you have other e-mail address?
P.Milanovic

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Petar Milanovic Mar-18-04, 07:45 AM (GMT)

7. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

I try to send some informations related to Lycopodium spores but your Yahoo address do not work. Do you have other e-mail address?
P.Milanovic

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webmaster Mar-18-04, 05:17 PM (GMT)

8. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

Petar,
Unfortunately that email address appears to be dead. Can you post the information here in Hydroforum?
Thanks!

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Larry Spangler Mar-31-04, 06:27 PM (GMT)

9. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"

It seems that this message is 4 years old, yet the responses are this month? Either way, I just finished a test using Lycopodium spores along with bacteria and dyes in a basaltic terrain. We recovered very few; 99% loss through the streambed and along the flowpath which was about 3,000 feet. We were using the spores as a surrogate for the parasite that causes whirling disease. We also considered using microspheres but found that the cost of those particles in that size range was prohibitive. Yes, time for preparation and analysis of the spores is considerable but I'd use them again where applicable.

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Don Carter	Jun-08-00, 08:45 PM (GMT)
"Lycopodium Tracer"
Any information or experience in using Lycopodium spores as a groundwater flow tracer? Don
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webmaster	Jun-09-00, 01:12 PM (GMT)
1. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
I have heard of spores used by fire eaters. It may also be toxic or cause allergic reactions.
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Luke Warren	Mar-12-04, 11:26 AM (GMT)
2. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
I found your message as I am currently seeking some Lycopodium spores for a release into a stream. Did you manage to find any spores yourself as I am having trouble acquiring some. Any help will be much appreciated Luke
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Ralph O. Ewers Ph.D.	Mar-17-04, 04:23 AM (GMT)
3. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
Lycopodium spores have been used in the past for groundwater tracing in Karst aquifers. I have used them with good results. However, their effective use is extremely labor intensive. They have been replaced by fluorescent dyes for this purpose because the dyes are very much easier to use, have part per trillion detection limits, are easily captured on activated carbon, and the analysis is quite simple. Spores are useful only in situations where the research question involves the ability of the aquifer to pass particles of spore size. Even this use has now been suplanted by fluorescent microspheres which are much more readilly detected and are supplied in a wide range of sizes to answer those questions regarding permeability to specific particle sizes. I strongly suggest that you abandon spores and investigate dyes or fluorescent microspheres instead. I can give you guidance on the use of spores or dyes, based upon nearly 30 years of experience in tracing. I could be much more help if I knew the question that you are trying to answer with the spores.
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top


	Chris Wolkersdorfer	Mar-17-04, 07:09 AM (GMT)
	4. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
	In case you really want to use Lycopodium, you can get them from the explosives industry or from medical suppliers. They were used for the production of medicine and they are still used to improve fire works. I used colored Lycopodium as tracers with good results several times. A supplier for Lycopodium and dyes could be Fluka at Sigma-Aldrich (http://www.sigma-aldrich.com/). Nonetheless, you should think about Ralph's comments. Due to the labour intensive use of Lycopodium we switched to Microspheres as well. We are working together with http://www.triton.com because they are quick, cheap and reliable. In case you need some literature, please see http://www.wolkersdorfer.info
	Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Didier vanden berghe	Mar-17-04, 07:52 AM (GMT)
5. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
There is a very nice online thesis talking about biological tracer. The first part of the thesis will interest you, the other parts talk much more about bacteriophages http://www.unige.ch/cyberdocuments/unine/theses2001/RossiP/these_front.html with best regards
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Petar Milanovic	Mar-18-04, 07:45 AM (GMT)
6. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
I try to send some informations related to Lycopodium spores but your Yahoo address do not work. Do you have other e-mail address? P.Milanovic
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Petar Milanovic	Mar-18-04, 07:45 AM (GMT)
7. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
I try to send some informations related to Lycopodium spores but your Yahoo address do not work. Do you have other e-mail address? P.Milanovic
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top


	webmaster	Mar-18-04, 05:17 PM (GMT)
	8. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
	Petar, Unfortunately that email address appears to be dead. Can you post the information here in Hydroforum? Thanks!
	Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Larry Spangler	Mar-31-04, 06:27 PM (GMT)
9. "RE: Lycopodium Tracer"
It seems that this message is 4 years old, yet the responses are this month? Either way, I just finished a test using Lycopodium spores along with bacteria and dyes in a basaltic terrain. We recovered very few; 99% loss through the streambed and along the flowpath which was about 3,000 feet. We were using the spores as a surrogate for the parasite that causes whirling disease. We also considered using microspheres but found that the cost of those particles in that size range was prohibitive. Yes, time for preparation and analysis of the spores is considerable but I'd use them again where applicable.
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top