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"MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

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Willett Oct-07-02, 09:39 AM (GMT)

"MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-02 AT 09:52 AM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-02 AT 09:49 AM (GMT)
I need advice as regards a pumping/hydraulic system for a property, deep in the French countryside, that is blessed with its own spring but suffers from unreliable water distribution.
SITUATION: Currently there is a Walton bell pump installed about four meters in level below a large collection tank built to capture the spring water as it gushes from the hillside. (A Walton pump, called I believe a Franklin pump in English, uses the pressure of descending pipe water -- by means of a valve and a flapper -- to function). Our Walton pump conveys a portion of the water flowing into it (via a pipe running directly from the collection tank at the spring site) to a second collection tank located in the attic of the house, about 45 meters in level above the spring. From there simple gravity feeds it to the kitchen, the bathrooms, the toilets, etc. A Walton pump requires no electrical source, since it works on water pressure alone, a tremendous advantage. The disadvantage is that during the hot summer months, the flow of spring water often decreases to a point where the Walton pump no longer functions, and we have serious water shortages. N.B. We also have a bored well adjacent to the house with an electric pump that conveys about two cubic meters of water per day, winter and summer.
SOLUTIONS CONTEMPLATED: I am considering the construction of a large (30/40 cubic meter) collection tank in the grounds adjacent to the house. My goal is to have this large tank fill up during the rainy months (when the house goes for extended periods with no occupants) with overflow directly from the attic tank. At that point, it appears I would have two choices: either I install an electric pump at this new large collection tank that would convey water back to the attic collection tank as needed (I suppose some kind of flotation device would be necessary so that the pump can function automatically); or I install a pump/compressor that would feed water directly to all sources in the house.

GERMANE FACTS: The bore well would be a perfectly adequate back-up were it not for the fact that during summer months as many as ten/twelve people are using the house at once. Secondly, a swimming pool is under construction that will have a summer evaporation rate of at least 4 cubic meters per week. So there goes at least two days of back-up, if not more.
I'm trying to come up with a solution that is at once reliable and reasonable (from a financial point of view). We've got a spring and we've got a well, but I know we've not yet exploited these blessings to the full extent. I should be most grateful for whatever advice readers can give, and I thank them sincerely in advance. John Willett. cgwillett@aol.com

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Table of contents

RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND ..., Glenn A. Fuller, 12:17 PM, Apr-12-04, (1)

RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND ..., Bill Turner, 08:25 PM, Apr-14-04, (2)
RE: Clogging screens, Justin Frost, 09:43 AM, Apr-16-04, (5)

RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND ..., James Skipper, 08:26 PM, Apr-14-04, (3)
RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND ..., Justin Frost, 09:07 AM, Apr-16-04, (4)

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Glenn A. Fuller Apr-12-04, 12:17 PM (GMT)

1. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

Your information was very interesting, wish I had experience or knowledge to offer a suggestion. I dont. However you may have already solved a problem I am contending with. We have a home in the smoky mountain area of east Tennessee. We have a very adequate flowing creek that originates with a spring about 1000 feet from our home. We currently pick our H20 up from the creek about 250 feet from our house. Our pick up device is the same as is inserted in a well. Of course we have silt and fine debrigh that stops up the screen around our pick up tube. Every 2-3 days our reservoir goes dry because the screen is covered. Any help will be most appreciated

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Bill Turner Apr-14-04, 08:25 PM (GMT)

2. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

From you description it sounds like the plain old ram pump. your solution is to drill your own well

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Justin Frost Apr-16-04, 09:43 AM (GMT)

5. "RE: Clogging screens"

A common problem among well drillers is that well screens become caked with clay and water ceases to flow through fast enough for use. An idea off the top of my head would be to make a water control system near the river or wherever you draw your water from. This sytem would ideally be made of concrete walls and troughs to draw water to a main collection tank. As the water is transported to the tank you can have a series of settling boxes that calm the water and allow sediment to settle out gravitaionally. These tanks can be flushed out by high speed river water or through a movable panel or with a pressurized hose from the pump. The central tank of course contains the pump and the rest of the works, ideally use automatic floating switches and 1 way valves to better regulate your pump's electric and plumbing. Carve out a 2 foot deep trench that goes from the stream to a storage/collection reservior where your pump will now suck the water from. A short series of stone blocks should be placed to dam up the trench every 3-8 feet so that the water level is controlled in such a way that all the blocks are submerged and allow only a slow moving current and the water level in the trench is level. The dams will cause sediment to drop out of solution in the trench and build up behind them. The whole trench could be flushed if the blocks are moved to remove the sediment after some time. You should maybe dam up a portion of the stream/river with stones and logs so that it diverts water to basins and broad flat areas. The key is to controll the water currents in a small pool with stones and such to that you can flush mud off your screens while at the same time prevent silt from getting into your system at all. Think more in terms of erosion control, try laying logs laterally to the the slope of the land along sturdy outcrops and tree stumps to eventually build erosion control burms that slow sediment getting to your pump. Also, SAND and GRAVEL are great at filtering out clay and mud. I don't really know what your exact situation is but I hope I offered you some ideas that you can work with.

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James Skipper Apr-14-04, 08:26 PM (GMT)

3. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

If you have the capital for a large tank, I would consider looking at either a windmill or solar powered electric pump.

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Justin Frost Apr-16-04, 09:07 AM (GMT)

4. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"

I too have dealt with the troubles of maximizing a spring's usefullness in the central hills west of San Antonio, Texas. I pieced together a water system on a very low budget that drew from an old spring that lies in the bottom a valley feeding a small creek. The spring itself was initially found and fortified with a stone retaining dam upstream and a circular stone cictern constructed around the most extensive spring tunnel wich is now about 10 feet down and to the side into the hill. The cistern was built in the 30's by the first settlers to this area and had to be cleaned out, a laborsome and flthy task to do by hand in a dark wet hole 10 feet in the side of a hill.
If your dealing with a low budget a cistern or holding tank may be your best bet. Perhaps if you built a large central holding tank that has perforated pipes set in the bottom that run underground around key areas of your spring to collect water from several yards out in a radial pattern. It is a method used to gather water from shallow or unsteady springs. Another thing you should check out is see if there are any significant impermeable rock outcrops or signs of some underground barrier. There may be a large igneous formation interfering with flow to your spring. Also check neighboring water tables and make a little map to see what direction the general flow of the area should be underground, as water flows from high to low regions underground. You should think about making it possible to recharge certain underground zones perhaps a short distance from your spring. Certain underground rock formations may store significant water but dont get enough recharge water to maintain any ouput. Dont get a pump that is too powerful either, get a sump pump for most shallow wells or springs and make sure it has enough horsepower at least 1/2 hp. The pump should have an underwater floating on/off switch at the bottom of the spring, and a storage tank needs a floating on/off switch at the top so you can better regulate water levels in your whole system and be more efficient with pumping costs and demands.

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Willett	Oct-07-02, 09:39 AM (GMT)
"MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"
LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-02 AT 09:52 AM (GMT) LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-02 AT 09:49 AM (GMT) I need advice as regards a pumping/hydraulic system for a property, deep in the French countryside, that is blessed with its own spring but suffers from unreliable water distribution. SITUATION: Currently there is a Walton bell pump installed about four meters in level below a large collection tank built to capture the spring water as it gushes from the hillside. (A Walton pump, called I believe a Franklin pump in English, uses the pressure of descending pipe water -- by means of a valve and a flapper -- to function). Our Walton pump conveys a portion of the water flowing into it (via a pipe running directly from the collection tank at the spring site) to a second collection tank located in the attic of the house, about 45 meters in level above the spring. From there simple gravity feeds it to the kitchen, the bathrooms, the toilets, etc. A Walton pump requires no electrical source, since it works on water pressure alone, a tremendous advantage. The disadvantage is that during the hot summer months, the flow of spring water often decreases to a point where the Walton pump no longer functions, and we have serious water shortages. N.B. We also have a bored well adjacent to the house with an electric pump that conveys about two cubic meters of water per day, winter and summer. SOLUTIONS CONTEMPLATED: I am considering the construction of a large (30/40 cubic meter) collection tank in the grounds adjacent to the house. My goal is to have this large tank fill up during the rainy months (when the house goes for extended periods with no occupants) with overflow directly from the attic tank. At that point, it appears I would have two choices: either I install an electric pump at this new large collection tank that would convey water back to the attic collection tank as needed (I suppose some kind of flotation device would be necessary so that the pump can function automatically); or I install a pump/compressor that would feed water directly to all sources in the house. GERMANE FACTS: The bore well would be a perfectly adequate back-up were it not for the fact that during summer months as many as ten/twelve people are using the house at once. Secondly, a swimming pool is under construction that will have a summer evaporation rate of at least 4 cubic meters per week. So there goes at least two days of back-up, if not more. I'm trying to come up with a solution that is at once reliable and reasonable (from a financial point of view). We've got a spring and we've got a well, but I know we've not yet exploited these blessings to the full extent. I should be most grateful for whatever advice readers can give, and I thank them sincerely in advance. John Willett. cgwillett@aol.com
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Glenn A. Fuller	Apr-12-04, 12:17 PM (GMT)
1. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"
Your information was very interesting, wish I had experience or knowledge to offer a suggestion. I dont. However you may have already solved a problem I am contending with. We have a home in the smoky mountain area of east Tennessee. We have a very adequate flowing creek that originates with a spring about 1000 feet from our home. We currently pick our H20 up from the creek about 250 feet from our house. Our pick up device is the same as is inserted in a well. Of course we have silt and fine debrigh that stops up the screen around our pick up tube. Every 2-3 days our reservoir goes dry because the screen is covered. Any help will be most appreciated
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top


	Bill Turner	Apr-14-04, 08:25 PM (GMT)
	2. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"
	From you description it sounds like the plain old ram pump. your solution is to drill your own well
	Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top


	Justin Frost	Apr-16-04, 09:43 AM (GMT)
	5. "RE: Clogging screens"
	A common problem among well drillers is that well screens become caked with clay and water ceases to flow through fast enough for use. An idea off the top of my head would be to make a water control system near the river or wherever you draw your water from. This sytem would ideally be made of concrete walls and troughs to draw water to a main collection tank. As the water is transported to the tank you can have a series of settling boxes that calm the water and allow sediment to settle out gravitaionally. These tanks can be flushed out by high speed river water or through a movable panel or with a pressurized hose from the pump. The central tank of course contains the pump and the rest of the works, ideally use automatic floating switches and 1 way valves to better regulate your pump's electric and plumbing. Carve out a 2 foot deep trench that goes from the stream to a storage/collection reservior where your pump will now suck the water from. A short series of stone blocks should be placed to dam up the trench every 3-8 feet so that the water level is controlled in such a way that all the blocks are submerged and allow only a slow moving current and the water level in the trench is level. The dams will cause sediment to drop out of solution in the trench and build up behind them. The whole trench could be flushed if the blocks are moved to remove the sediment after some time. You should maybe dam up a portion of the stream/river with stones and logs so that it diverts water to basins and broad flat areas. The key is to controll the water currents in a small pool with stones and such to that you can flush mud off your screens while at the same time prevent silt from getting into your system at all. Think more in terms of erosion control, try laying logs laterally to the the slope of the land along sturdy outcrops and tree stumps to eventually build erosion control burms that slow sediment getting to your pump. Also, SAND and GRAVEL are great at filtering out clay and mud. I don't really know what your exact situation is but I hope I offered you some ideas that you can work with.
	Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

James Skipper	Apr-14-04, 08:26 PM (GMT)
3. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"
If you have the capital for a large tank, I would consider looking at either a windmill or solar powered electric pump.
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top

Justin Frost	Apr-16-04, 09:07 AM (GMT)
4. "RE: MAXIMIZE USE OF SPRING &GROUND WATER FOR PRIVATE USE"
I too have dealt with the troubles of maximizing a spring's usefullness in the central hills west of San Antonio, Texas. I pieced together a water system on a very low budget that drew from an old spring that lies in the bottom a valley feeding a small creek. The spring itself was initially found and fortified with a stone retaining dam upstream and a circular stone cictern constructed around the most extensive spring tunnel wich is now about 10 feet down and to the side into the hill. The cistern was built in the 30's by the first settlers to this area and had to be cleaned out, a laborsome and flthy task to do by hand in a dark wet hole 10 feet in the side of a hill. If your dealing with a low budget a cistern or holding tank may be your best bet. Perhaps if you built a large central holding tank that has perforated pipes set in the bottom that run underground around key areas of your spring to collect water from several yards out in a radial pattern. It is a method used to gather water from shallow or unsteady springs. Another thing you should check out is see if there are any significant impermeable rock outcrops or signs of some underground barrier. There may be a large igneous formation interfering with flow to your spring. Also check neighboring water tables and make a little map to see what direction the general flow of the area should be underground, as water flows from high to low regions underground. You should think about making it possible to recharge certain underground zones perhaps a short distance from your spring. Certain underground rock formations may store significant water but dont get enough recharge water to maintain any ouput. Dont get a pump that is too powerful either, get a sump pump for most shallow wells or springs and make sure it has enough horsepower at least 1/2 hp. The pump should have an underwater floating on/off switch at the bottom of the spring, and a storage tank needs a floating on/off switch at the top so you can better regulate water levels in your whole system and be more efficient with pumping costs and demands.
Remove \| Alert	Edit \| Reply \| Reply With Quote \| Top